Training Expectations

00:00:03: Hi folks, this is All

00:00:05: Things

00:00:06: Product with Petra Bille

00:00:07: and Theresa Corks.

00:00:09: And we're so happy you are here!

00:00:17: Teresa, twelve people on my team We have one hour next week.

00:00:24: Can you deliver a training?

00:00:27: Make sure that everybody has the skills and capabilities necessary to do continuous product discovery.

00:00:34: well

00:00:37: Yeah I love this question.

00:00:39: three times I think, i'm not exaggerating.

00:00:43: Three times in the last week... ...I got an email of The Forum.

00:01:05: Theresa!

00:01:11: You know, it's funny people think about continuous discovery as like one skill.

00:01:16: Like

00:01:17: I'm going to go

00:01:17: to a workshop and learn how do you continue this discovery?

00:01:20: I mean here at talk in the magic we know how to do continuous discovery.

00:01:24: that's like saying can you teach me had be a marketer in an hour.

00:01:31: This is complex area with a lot of skills and a lot habits on a lot abilities.

00:01:38: so I always push back ago.

00:01:40: OK Tell me where your team is at.

00:01:42: Like what's the most important discovery habit for them to focus on?

00:01:47: They don't know, right and so I'm seeing a huge gap in that The people that are asking for training Don't know enough about Discovery To Know Even What Training they Need.

00:02:01: Yeah, it's like I thought

00:02:02: of owns.

00:02:03: yeah And So i thought would be fun to just Talk About What Different Like options are good for.

00:02:12: so like I'll try to outline the way that I think about it.

00:02:16: And then I would love to hear how you think about because i'm sure You've experienced this too where?

00:02:20: You get asked there's just a mismatch and I Think About.

00:02:23: It is like People ask For A service Because They want This Benefit But

00:02:29: The Service

00:02:30: they're Asking for Doesn't Always Deliver, The Benefit They Want.

00:02:34: yeah for me.

00:02:35: So if I Get These Requests My default answer contains something along the lines of, okay.

00:02:43: There's different things that one could learn or acquire and one is know-how.

00:02:49: so I don't know about the GDPR rules in Europe.

00:02:53: this is no.

00:02:54: how then i'm lacking a One hour training might do it?

00:03:06: could be a maybe okay-ish one hour time spent or something like that.

00:03:11: But then there is this skills and capabilities, they need what you said.

00:03:17: it's habit forming... It starts with learning something acquiring know how.

00:03:24: That's then what you're offering them, right?

00:03:26: You say like I can walk you through the things that you would need to understand and learn.

00:03:31: It gives a bit of know-how about the field or topic on the theme...you can lay out your land for it but then you either design a gym where they go build their own abs and muscles because you cannot help them!

00:03:49: the product discovery muscle from listening to you for one hour.

00:03:53: It does not work with real muscles as well, so we need... Yeah!

00:03:57: ...to build a gym and go

00:03:58: there.".

00:03:59: I think this is a couple of elements to it.

00:04:00: So first off all continuous discovery Is NOT like.

00:04:05: Oh i just needed to acquire some knowledge

00:04:07: And IT'S NOT!

00:04:09: It's also not even Knowledge that you could- Like Even the overview isn't knowledge You can acquire in ONE HOUR.

00:04:17: Like if you just look at my book, which by the way I don't think is covers all of continuous discovery.

00:04:21: It's a good start.

00:04:23: There's thirteen

00:04:24: habits Mm-hmm

00:04:25: right?

00:04:26: I give one hour

00:04:27: talk.

00:04:29: Yeah, i'd Give A One Hour Talk on The What and Why Of Continuous Discovery.

00:04:33: I Don't Cover All of the Habits.

00:04:34: there's not Time

00:04:36: yeah.

00:04:36: so.

00:04:37: And then If You Think About A single habit There's.

00:04:41: it's called a habit for a reason like it only Works when You do it Regularly.

00:04:46: And so to get the point where it's a habit, there are concepts you need know.

00:04:51: There is skill that needs development and mindsets needed develop.

00:04:55: So

00:04:55: I think what hard about this... And practice?

00:04:58: Yeah well i think you developed skills through practice

00:05:01: right?

00:05:01: Okay yeah!

00:05:02: So..I think whats hard about these like im not sure people are aware of if they think about from the sense ask for service because want benefit.

00:05:11: I think its our job educate people on whats the right pairing.

00:05:15: So like, a service.

00:05:18: A one-hour talk.

00:05:19: what's the benefit you should expect from a one hour talk?

00:05:22: And I think in a One Hour Talk i can inspire You that there might be a new way to work.

00:05:29: In a ONE HOUR TALK I Can introduce some of The key concepts for a single habit.

00:05:36: Right um...I can't go deep on thirteen habits in one talk.

00:05:41: I can't teach you skill That's

00:05:45: impossible.

00:05:46: I can't change your mindset in a one hour talk,

00:05:50: but the inspiration to follow through on certain things and with inspiration i really mean this kind of.

00:06:00: for example i have just managing uptalk And usually when i deliver the Managing UpTalk afterwards The people that are approaching me In This Conversation and i know it's wise because A lot Of People Are Not Approaching Me But You Get The Idea So Those Ones That Do For them it is really like an ah, I actually never thought about influencing my boss a bit more.

00:06:22: Thank you for just opening up that door because its easy to go through the door.

00:06:27: so i know how provide feedback and talk in the talk as well.

00:06:32: they feel equipped and capable of doing this thing itself not very complicated.

00:06:39: on all that im giving them in these talks basically permission and encouragement to do so.

00:06:44: I think this is something that a talk can do if the people already have the tools, And half of environment where they actually can't Do very simple thing A very simple behavior change Um...and it's not very risky.

00:06:58: But all of them are just not the case for changing

00:07:03: even For your managing uptalk.

00:07:05: There's plenty Of People in The Audience That Are Gonna Get Inspired By That And Know That Thats A Thing but Still Won't know How To Do It Right.

00:07:13: Yeah, so I do agree with you.

00:07:15: like the purpose of talks.

00:07:17: Like i think one of the best things You can get out Of a one-hour talk is to plant A seed.

00:07:23: yeah that inspires

00:07:24: change.

00:07:25: Give them a present.

00:07:26: That's my picture.

00:07:27: always our job Is To Inspot like paint?

00:07:30: A picture of a different future.

00:07:32: yes Here's The Future where you Can Manage Up.

00:07:35: here's The future Where you might Become a Continuous Discovery team.

00:07:38: yeah it doesn't create that future.

00:07:42: So like When somebody says, can you give a one-hour talk to teach my team continuous discovery?

00:07:48: That's a service request that is asking for benefit.

00:07:57: if our talks are embedded in bigger coaching programs.

00:08:02: For example, the other day I just commented on something from The Ladder Medical where they have like a full-fledged six months training program and it brings five external speakers along.

00:08:13: or long time to give inspirational talk but then follow up with training... Yeah!

00:08:20: ...on that.

00:08:21: And that works perfectly fine.

00:08:23: Yeah, I actually think the one-hour talk has a place especially if your goal is organizational transformation.

00:08:29: Right.

00:08:29: It's.

00:08:30: it's a great starting point to paint the picture to set of vision.

00:08:35: This is where we're going.

00:08:36: yes

00:08:37: i Think that next big chunk like.

00:08:39: then The other thing i get Is like can you teach us?

00:08:42: The discovery habits in A four hour workshop or In a one day Workshop?

00:08:45: and Can You do that?

00:08:46: Teresa tell me That.

00:08:47: that Say Yes

00:08:49: No I think again, like if we talk about managing up what are the skills that are required to manage?

00:08:59: Up.

00:09:01: to

00:09:05: have a bit of reflection on what you can expect from the leader, so that you know how to manage up towards basically.

00:09:11: Okay?

00:09:11: So I

00:09:15: need like model... Exactly!

00:09:16: You need to be good at communication and tailoring feedback in way it's not received as too personal or confrontative impact.

00:09:28: So and the question is always, Is it your boss's behavior that you want to talk about?

00:09:32: Or do you have to make an ask for your personal right?

00:09:35: And that's very different as well.

00:09:38: so yeah all these things need To be considered and then You need to consider Your bosses persona.

00:09:42: are they more like Very risk aware?

00:09:46: Are there where a micromanaging you Have to tailor your message?

00:09:49: All this kind of thing?

00:09:51: I can imagine.

00:09:52: A four hour workshop Where you introduce

00:09:56: I could.

00:09:57: Your model of this is what you should expect from your leader, ten

00:10:01: leadership responsibilities

00:10:03: and that's like a forty minute talk.

00:10:05: Yes And it gives me something to attach too and say okay This is what i should expect for my leader.

00:10:11: Maybe do an exercise where You have them write down what they are getting from their leader, right?

00:10:18: That's

00:10:18: all we do.

00:10:20: And then maybe you have time to do one round of practice.

00:10:24: Feedbacks.

00:10:25: Pick

00:10:26: one thing and let us play with.

00:10:28: how would ask for that... How will you be asked about it?

00:10:31: Yeah

00:10:32: Okay!

00:10:32: That is a pretty reasonable four hour workshop.

00:10:36: I am not walking away.

00:10:37: an expert on how manage up just got introduced.

00:10:42: yes

00:10:42: okay so now lets look at continuous discovery.

00:10:44: We had thirteen habits.

00:10:46: Let's pick one thirteen

00:10:48: for our workshops and they still would only be introduced.

00:10:53: Yeah, like I what's hard is that?

00:10:56: Like we can deconstruct this because we have expertise in these areas.

00:11:00: The people are asking for help don't have expertise.

00:11:02: In this area They don't know.

00:11:04: there's thirteen habits.

00:11:05: They don' t know the.

00:11:06: each habit Is complex they don't no to.

00:11:08: each habit requires a lot of practice To build skill.

00:11:11: so if i'm thinking about like I just need my teams to talk to customers more.

00:11:15: They don't realize that like, okay.

00:11:17: Well first we have to introduce the proper way to talk to customers.

00:11:19: We have talked about how do you recruit?

00:11:20: Customers need to practice this skill of collecting a story from customers.

00:11:25: You've to practice the skill of synthesizing what you learned.

00:11:27: Yeah, just practice the scale of knowing how right.

00:11:31: and so

00:11:31: I'm becoming

00:11:32: really aware that Like we Collectively people who offer these training services Needed get much better at communicating The full picture of what it takes to get good at something.

00:11:47: and I

00:11:47: think it's scary To do that because like if i painted a really clear picture Of, what?

00:11:51: It took.

00:11:51: To Get Good at continuous then

00:11:53: you would not sell

00:11:54: anything.

00:11:55: most companies Would be Like this is too hard.

00:11:58: yeah

00:11:58: but This Is What we see.

00:12:01: so this Is what We See in Reality.

00:12:02: like A lot of the People That are Starting on the journey And Embark On this.

00:12:06: okay We want to transform to more Discovery habits.

00:12:09: all of Us know its Not rare that They never end up There in their final destination

00:12:15: of

00:12:16: better improved discovery practice.

00:12:18: And I think what makes this work is that you don't have to become an expert, get the benefits from habits.

00:12:25: You do not need to be an expert on managing up and getting benefit by having a single conversation with your leader about something which we would hope...

00:12:34: Haven´t recorded session on five percent better?

00:12:38: I think

00:12:43: what's hard is like when i get a request, can you come to my off-site and teach at four hour workshop?

00:12:50: I Can't pick for You Which Four Hour Workshop Is Gonna Work Best For You?

00:12:56: Mm-hmm

00:12:57: Right And so.

00:13:01: I need more information.

00:13:03: I Need to know More About

00:13:04: Qualification

00:13:06: Like What What's Driving This Need?

00:13:09: right and I you Know.

00:13:11: Sometimes I Get on the Phone call with a leader and we have that conversation.

00:13:15: And it's like great discovery, call, and we can really zoom in on this is the specific habit they would have the most impact?

00:13:22: This is consulting right?

00:13:24: It is partly our job to help them figure out but I don't always get them to engage.

00:13:30: sometimes they go...it

00:13:32: feels

00:13:33: more like a check-the box.

00:13:34: no i just need your speaker be that speaker because it's not gonna have an impact.

00:13:43: Yeah, yeah I know.

00:13:44: um so i have two tricks fixes to that particular problem.

00:13:51: So one is who usually is asking us for delivering this talk Is either HR or the product ops department Or a Product Leadership Figure?

00:14:02: That's Usually.

00:14:02: The People Come Knock Outdoors Sometimes A Procurement Department But Thats Rare And I try to get exposure to the actual team members, so i tend conversation with if it's more of not the talk, but murder for our training.

00:14:20: And then I would try to have

00:14:22: quick

00:14:22: twenty minute conversation with three team members that get a bit of a better idea where they actually are.

00:14:28: so um That sometimes helps.

00:14:31: and Then the other thing that i tried To always sell With The Talk is extensive Q&A.

00:14:40: Yep!

00:14:40: That's Not Always Possible But I think there's so much beauty in me giving the introduction to a topic and then really opening up the floor.

00:14:51: And not every company is great at moderating this floor, yeah?

00:14:55: I know i have been there but some really are.

00:14:58: um...and I give them a bit of guidance how best moderate that and how to collect questions because then I can react to real question that people having always gives the best and brightest coaching, consulting moments and is more valuable than the talk itself to some extent.

00:15:18: But people don't love Q&A.

00:15:19: they're always like yeah then we do ten minutes of Q & A.

00:15:23: I know actually most of my talks are thirty-minutes talks, thirty minutes a Q&a.

00:15:28: for exactly this reason It...I think what it usually surfaces Is the organizational barriers To whatever that was about.

00:15:41: Yeah

00:15:42: Right.

00:15:42: Yeah, but then you have something to act upon.

00:15:45: yeah.

00:15:46: So then I think so like this is what?

00:15:48: I think isn't it a great purpose of a one-hour talk Like the when our talk i love To give Is my what and why i've continuous discovery Talki Give The overview Of It's like at A high Level.

00:15:58: it's The Thirty Minute Pitch of What The Book Is About

00:16:01: Mm-Hmm.

00:16:02: And I Think What'S Really nice about That Is for a lot of Teams They've Never really Worked in A Continuous Fashion a Lot of teams Stakeholders tell them what to build so they haven't done true discovery.

00:16:13: And,

00:16:13: They get introduced the big ideas and then they start imagining their head like how would that work here?

00:16:20: Then when we open it up for Q&A all of questions come up are Like How does this Work When We're Told To Build A Big Project?

00:16:28: How Does This Work When I Don't Have Access My Customers Right?

00:16:32: You Start To Uncover All The Barriers In The Organization

00:16:35: And this is very painful to watch then for the leadership person or product upstream that brought you in at first place.

00:16:43: But what's great about it, now when I talk with leader on training do need we can have a much better conversation because doesn't matter how much train your teams and interview if they don' t have access customers are getting zero value from them right?

00:17:00: So like starts to surface organizational barriers that need to first be addressed before training is effective.

00:17:08: So service-to-expectation calibration, it's actually what we need.

00:17:13: and then a one hour talk still can do a lot?

00:17:18: Yeah!

00:17:18: I'm not poo-pooing the One Hour Talk... I'm poo-pooing The One Hour Talking.

00:17:22: is this silver bullet that changes your team's behavior?

00:17:25: Yes okay.

00:17:29: Theresa thanks for bringing that topic.

00:17:31: i loved it.

00:17:32: yeah That was fun.

00:17:33: Thanks, Petra.